SP: Yesterday, the self declared super reformer of India gave an interview to a news channel answering questions from the public. I tried for the phone connection, in vain. Understandable, given the number of people who are itching to tell him which devil's category he belongs to. He said that being a responsible citizen of the country, it was his duty to see to it that his countrymen, actually women, abide by the culture of the land. He went on to say that Pubs, Valentine's day were derived from West. Well, Mr.Muthalik, how about Electricity then? Your telephone? Cars? Buses? The IT Industry? Your shaving blade? We have embraced Western Culture so deeply that we'll have to travel back to Muthalik's grandpa's era to revert it.So, why particularly target the pubs and the VDay celebration? VDay is one of the nicest of the celebrations to be practiced in the country. So what if its imported from the west? Its a lot better than Sati, Balya Vivaah. Its a day devoted to the expression of love. No animal sacrifice involved. No fire crackers are burst.
Now, pubs didn't quite fit in during Muthalik's youthful days when Agriculture was the occupation everybody was into. You do hell lot of physical work and drool to sleep pretty early. Things have changed and if I may take IT industry as an example, IT guys slug it out 5 days a week, sitting motionless in front of their workstation, harrowing their mind all the time. The thought of another grilling week ahead can't be forced away. How do you expect these guys to cut loose? Some prefer Yoga, others like to party. Legal if you are 18, as per the constitution of India, by-hearted and perfected during high school days.Wahi Ambedkarwala. If you're not aware, you bloody need to GO TO SCHOOL! Moreover pubs don't pull people inside. We are given an option of not getting in. Pubs are being fair. Why can't the Rama Sene follow suit and be fair? Let them influence us with their ideology and not force us with it.
Muthalik also apologized on air for manhandling girls in the Mangalore incident. Is that supposed to be dramatic? Are we supposed to be in tears for your generosity?For the crime that you've done,Mr.Monster, you should be beaten up left and right by Women Weight Lifting athletes, both ex-champions and current champions. Sorry ke bacche!
Me: I read your blog post and felt that without thinking and analysing the reality you have written this post. You talk of using Electricity, Cars, telephones, but do you know Indian philosophy tells people to take positive things not the negative things.
And about sati or balya vivah system, no where it is mentioned in the vedas, the system came into existence during & after foreign invasions.
You talk of agriculture, what you will eat in your near future? Glass, CD, DVD and computer?
There is no opposition for partying, there is opposition for charas, ganja and hard core parties.
And you tell about Valentines day, did u hear what he said on that topic? he said why you celebrate only one day, lets celebrate love for the whole year.
And Indian culture tells us we all are part of big family so here every body has the same right to tell people not to do negative things.And also we all live in societies, communities. For the overall growth of community you need some people to monitor and that is the reason we have law & order and if it can't handle negative things people will form groups and try to do something for that, take for eaxmple, after the terrorist attacks so many groups formed to protest against politicians, do you say bastereds to these people who came forward to question politicians? is it not a form of Moral Policing?.
If you want to ask "who the hell are you to tell me", i am your well wisher so i am telling you.
AKS:It is not only the Indian philosophy, but all cultures don't support negative things. Just because people go to pubs or celebrate Valentines day, are they doing negative things ? Mr.Kiran says there is no opposition for partying, are you sure Kiran ? i live in Bangalore, and we have curfews after 11 PM, if that is not bad enough, we have the Muthalik Police as well, who call themselves the Rama Sena ? In my point of view,we are better off without these moral police guys.
In the past ten years there has been growth in all the industries, communities have improved, people are getting education, better jobs, better facilities. Agreed that there are political forces that hinder to this development, so i would request the Moral Police to target such entities, who actually hold back us from improvement, and leave the youth as they are, they don't have a very happy life as it is. They have work stress, relationships etc which affect them, if they want to spend some time in the pub, let them ! They are spending their hard earned money to relax themselves, why are the moral police depriving them from that as well.
What our life is already bad, you want to make it worse, huh ?
AKS
Nethra:Well said there!! i am a girl from an orthodox brahmin family from a place near mangalore.. i have seen n known people wid d same mentality.. even my family belongs to dis group..
what i would like to add is dat der is no harm in drinking n dancing in d pubs for any woman as long as she is ok with it.. come on dis is 2009!! its been 61 years since india got independence.. people have rights to do anything without disturbing n harming others..
its not fair to expect only d women to uphold d so called culture.. men too r part of dis society.. make dem also take some responsibility..
n abt d comments mutalik gave on d tv interview, i so badly wanted to call up n give him a lecture on how things should work here.. let him know dat der r enough things to worry abt.. things like terrorism, corruption etc.. n make him realize dat ders no difference between him n any other terrorist..
living in india has become difficult, especially for us girls, dont make it worse for us..
Nara Hari :Read kiran Kumar's comment. I support comment of Kiran... Claps to KK
Halod :God's Army AKA Ramsena is not what they say they are. In the name of Gods and Hinduisam, they are trying to plant fear in common public. I have been to Mumbai where there is a different version of RAMSENA and they call it SHIVSENA. They are also famous (or Notorious) not for helping people but forcing them to obey their virtual LAWS. In hindu mythology we say that we have more than 330,000,000 different gods. If such kind of GANGs are made by attaching SENA with each, then we what will be our future.
As a common man, I am also against this PUB culture. PUBs spread a cluture which don’t have any moral. People say that they go to PUB for enjoyment. But we have seen photographs of such enjoyment (email forwards). Anyway, these culture should not given chance to be the future’s mantra.
All these SENA guys belive that then can make people do anything by forcing them. So to prove that the have to create such incidents which will create the FEAR. There were reports saying that, one Girl is molested by the RAMSENA. These are bad examples though. Blindly being on one side and attacking the other without knowing the truth is bad.
Me : It is not that people or parents don't want their son's & daughters to enjoy, they just want every body to value our Indian tradition and give respect to elders and along with that they want to see the next generation live with dignity & self respect and protect our unique Identity.
How about your previous post AKS?you mentioned you want to quit boozing in 2009? whether your mind (inner moral police) is telling you to stop? or you want to save some money?
I am not denying that those who sit and work in front of computers or in offices should not have fun. To relax, we should enjoy and that is where the party concept comes in. But with western touch to it, turned out to be a way to group together to drink,smoke drugs and have some wild acts.Also refer to Halod, about email forwards. This is where the opposition comes into picture, and opposition says there are so many things you can do to relax, you can teach to poor people, you can discuss things and form groups to solve problems in your area. Just make some contribution to society, society can't run without we the youngsters.
At this moment of History, we are the only surviving protectors of our traditions, in this moment of history make no mistakes.If you and we all don't protect our culture then we become the destroyers of our own value system.
And nethra says that she has known people with the "same mentality & even 'her family' belongs to it". Let me tell you one thing nethra. Do you know, why the "brahmin" category was developed during vedic days? Brahmin category people were supposed to run the society in much more efficient ways, they were supposed to teach other class of people and they were the protectors of our very much identity to this day.
Hinduism is generally regarded as the world's oldest "organized" religion. This belongs to all class of people but still credit goes to so called "Brahmins" who managed to organize the society.
And netra mentions that there are so many other things for Ram/Shiv Sena to do like to fight corruption, terrorism and all other things, let me tell you one more thing, do you know why they are behind youngsters? They truly believe that only the youngsters can protect our culture at this moment of history and they feel bad when they see youngsters, changing girl friends and boy friends so often, girls drinking alcohol with boys and having wild parties. And by the way, why you are telling them to fight against corruption, terrorism, while you are enjoying drinks & company of men? Can't you join the group to fight against corruption & terrorism?
Why the "other" people must fight?for you or for society? what value addition you are making to the society? whatever you are doing is for yourself not the society.
Let's protect our culture and work towards better future.
Nara Hari :Now its the turn of the author of this blog to answer Mr. Kiran. This thread's name is "Muthalik, go to school" when I read the heading I feel that all the school going guys/girls are going to pub/bars... The wild acts in parties, use of drugs etc... are never justified... either its by a guy or by a gal... Also... Nethra is a living example of the selfish youth... She says that.."Let me enjoy in pubs and you guys protest against corruption & terrorism".
AKS :Well since this discussion has come this far, i would like to point a few things to all you guys and gals, first of all we never said anything about the youth sitting and drinking while others fight against corruption and terrorism, all we said was why target the youth and their enjoyment, when there are lots of other stuff to worry about and second of all Mr Kiran, read the blog properly dude!
Where is it mentioned by me, that I "want to quit boozing in 2009". :) . I have to start to quit. :)
I am against terrorism and corruption in a full way, but that does not mean I go on the streets and start abusing politicians and guys that i don't know verbally and physically.
Do you think that approach is right?
How would you feel if someone came when you were sitting with your girlfriend and started abusing you ?
Is that kind of behavior justified?
I am also against drugs and "wild acts" which hamper our morality and dignity.
but that does not mean I hit and kick people who use drugs?
I have talked and made people understand the ill effects of drugs, smoking and boozing, and made a few quit the habit too.
We live in a modern age, people!
Violence will only replied with violence. You hit them they hit you and then it gets publicized,
the cause is forgotten; only the violence is remembered.
If your loved one is destroying his/her life by taking booze or drugs or wasting time in pubs, then fine, you can hit them, yell at them.
But not all people at pubs are bad and are doing illegal activities.
Are they?
Let's protect our culture and work towards better future, with a better peaceful approach.
AKS - Anil Kumar Sasi
SP :
Hi Kiran,
You say that I've not analysed before I posted this. True. Coz its not rocket science. Its easy to figure out that we can't do without western derivatives.
Quoting you : "Indian philosophy tells people to take positive things not the negative things"
Cool.But who decides whats positive and whats negative?
You? Mr.Muthalik? Sorry, its upto the individual.
Again Quoting you : "why you celebrate only one day, lets celebrate love for the whole year."
Thats also cool, if you have that much of a spare time. See.I don't think you are clear of the concept. Planting trees is of utmost importance. We need to take good care of our environment 24x7 throughout the year. But we celebrate "Vanamahotsava" on one particular day.It is a symbolical statement that we care for our environment.In similar lines,in our busy life, we hardly get to tell our loved ones how much we really care for them.How much we love them.VDay is one day devoted for that. For expressing your love.
If you are capable of celebrating it 365 days in a year,man,you must be rich!!
And now my very important point. I'm disgusted by your "agriculture" comment.
Show me where have I shown "agriculture" in dim lines. I have only pointed out Farming requires physical labour which makes them hit the bed pretty early,contrasting with the IT guys.
Essentially,Culture means lifestyle and your occupation dictates your lifestyle. Times have changed. Some have moved on to other occupations.Therefore, you expect the culture to evolve as well. That was my point in total. You have misread it.
Quoting you : "You talk of agriculture, what you will eat in your near future? Glass, CD, DVD and computer?"
I eat things which science categorizes as "edible substances".
Quoting you : "you mentioned you want to quit boozing in 2009? whether your mind (inner moral police) is telling you to stop? or you want to save some money?"
Money saving strategy.Nothing else.
Again quoting you : "Brahmin category people were supposed to run the society in much more efficient ways, they were supposed to teach other class of people and they were the protectors of our very much identity to this day. "
Ha ha.. We all know how Brahmins "organised" the society.There are many movies filmed on this topic and many novels released. Even to this day, these guys take a bath if they happen to touch a person belonging to the "so called" low caste. I'm a Brahmin myself and am ashamed of this.
Netra :well!! AKS, neither did i say anything about the youth sitting and drinking while others fight against corruption and terrorism. what i meant is... if at all mutalik is interested in doing some service to dis society he could fight against issues like terrorism n corruption n not go abusing n molesting d people in d pub.
Me :Now you guys are telling, you didn't say that, you didn't say this.
Attack on women is not at all justifiable.
Please read your posts once again, your writings convey that "Let me enjoy in pubs, with boyfriend/girl friend & you guys protest against corruption & terrorism" (thanks NaraHari).
Netra, you can't call these people terrorists, that is improper word to use.In your logic, the people who are fighting for protection of our culture are terrorists, and those people who are blasting bombs & killing innocent people looks like Freedom Fighters?
And Aks, sorry to use your name for boozing thing :-),it's mistake. Don't start boozing, so no need to quit :-). And i appreciate your effort for spreading awareness to some of the people about drugs, smoking & boozing & helping some to quit.
Aks & nethra, do you know what is the aim of these (Ram/Shiv or whatever else you call them) groups? Their aim is to protect culture. As per your interpretation or logic, a group with an aim to provide employment to all, needs to fight against terrorism? In which school you learnt that logic?
To fight against corruption & terrorism, we have police force & military force, but there was no system to protect our culture so that gap was filled by these groups.
And SP, as i said earlier, we live in societies & communities. And they all operate on some common ground or some common rules.
"Societies decide what is positive & what is negative."
India is a big society which has its own law (which consider it to be positive) & as a citizen you need to obey the rules, you can't act as you like.
Even though the decision for positive & negative is with individual, you can't act on your
own, you need to respect the common rules devised by the society & abide by them.
And for celebrating love for whole year, you don't have to be rich :-).
I agree that cultures should evolve, but in a positive way not the negative way.
Do some research on structured organization of society during Vedic period, you will know what i am talking about & also you will know what the "untouchable" means. Do you know, even touching god is restricted after you go for toilet? And you say you are Brahman, you must be knowing that, you should not touch without having bath, if that is the case then every man is untouchable. You can't blame it only on Brahmans.
SP :Who exactly is this "society"? I'm only answerable to the law,my family to some extent and NOBODY ELSE. If you have a different opinion, keep it to yourself. Don't smear it on others. A well-wisher can only wish a person well. He simply cannot control another individual's actions.
I don't need to master Vedas to live my life peacefully. Are you trying to say that "so called" low caste folk don't take bath? Are you justifying untouchability?
That's sad.
Freedom is the most valuable virtue mankind has ever enjoyed. Anybody who desires to put that at stake,is a terrorist. You decide if Muthalik and his men qualify.
There's no ONE culture to follow. No society can impose rules on anyone. You protect your culture. Imbibe your values to your descendants, if you please to do so. I'll follow mine. No Tom,Dick,Harry can deprive me of that.
If everybody went on with their job without messing with others' lives, life's gonna be peaceful.
Me:
This self obsessed mentality is what ruining India's image. I think based on your way of saying things you don't care a shit about India & Indians.
Without mastering vedas you can't blame Vedic Culture.
I am not in support of untouchability , i am saying every body is untouchable.
Mother is a well wisher of her son/daughter. Do you know Why mothers beat their childs when childrens do wrong things? Do you want to call her terrorist too?
I think you need to go back to school and learn.
Society starts with your parents and has relatives, well wishers, friends, colleagues, teachers,neighbors and every other human/animal being with whom you are living. I know you are the one answerable to law and that law is built on the foundation of society.
SP :The analogy you are presenting is crappy to say the least.
Let me put it differently. I allow my mother to control me.My choice.I wont allow a street monger to interfere with my life. Again my choice. My mother is a well-wisher bcoz I accept her as my well-wisher. Not these saffron goons. I started my post with "I'm only answerable to the law,my family to some extent and NOBODY ELSE." When I say family, mother is included as well.Isn't she?
Sorry.I don't consult neighbours for my decisions.
I might not have made great sacrifices to my nation as yet.But atleast, I haven't interfered with the lives of my fellow countrymen.
And about me going back to school and learning,I'd love to do so.But,I'm sure my ideologies will remain the same because living n letting live is what's being taught in schools.
I didn't get this "untouchable" theory of yours.
Quoting you :"Everybody is untouchable!!"
Howz the human race supposed to survive if thats the case?
Me:The analogy looks crappy because of your selfish thinking & wrong logic.
Refer to netra's comment "same mentality & even 'her family' belongs to it".& she calls muthalik a Terrorist, that means her parents are also terrorists?Every parent who opposes such things are terrorists?
And about respecting women,do you think Vedic people didn't respect women? Then why so many rivers named after women?why Ganga is considered as sacred?why so many women goddesses are there in Vedas?
Mutalik group's aim is to protect culture & they are doing that. You can't tell a group to divert the groups aim and fight for something else.
I know that schools teach "live & let live", but they also teach us to respect our value system, value our culture & tradition.
What I mean by untouchable is, every body is untouchable and only by cleaning them selves & their thoughts, people become touchable. That is the reason, the categorical structure of society was based on the nature of work they do.
Kill somebody and you will know who decides what.
Me : too much and blind westernization is harming Indian society and this must be stopped. We need to act against those who encourages west crap. There is no harm in following good things of west, but off late its only the bad things which is being followed.
SP :You and your profound admirer NaraHari have messed up with Nethra's comments big time. Nethra has already justified her comments and it seems that you have a few language problems as her remarks get gobbled up when they reach you.
I've explained in my previous post the difference between one's family and an outsider.
Muthalik comes close to be branded a terrorist because he's violated laws, terrorized young girls. Period.
And don't just bring in random comments about Vedic culture.I read all the comments several times wondering where I've talked about Vedic culture not respecting women. I appreciate that you are aware of the Vedic culture, but find a better forum to showcase your talent.
I think I've given enough justification for what I've posted. I'll continue to work hard and party harder. As long as I'm within the law brackets, KOI MAA KA LAAL MUJHE ROK NAHIN SAKTHA.
NaraHari : Yespi: "Sorry.I don't consult neighbours for my decisions. " --- Our, Indian culture says that " Vasudhaiva Kudumbakam" That means, whole earth, at least the whole India is a family and thats why the sena( I am not related to any sena :~)) trying to stop their sisters from these kind of western culture. I am not telling that western culture is bad. It is the culture in those western countries. I heard that in US, If you are 15yr old and u dont hav GF or u r not partying, your parents will take you to a Metal health clinic. I am just trying to convince the difference between India's and western culture.
AKS :I see you guys are still blogging about this,and i see Kiran and Yespi are battling it out.
It is amazing that there are still people in this day and age that think like in the vedic times.:)
If you cannot open your eyes and see the world,then don't force other to close theirs and be blind as you are.
Times were different then, and times are different now.
Open your eyes to see the world, this is not the Vedic period.
Anyways like Yespi said, If we work hard, we WILL party harder.
Keep it cool guys..
See you on Feb 14, :)
- AKS
Me :Yeah it's amazing to know that people still think like vedic people. I too was not aware of the Vedic culture, i was so much involved in science & somewhat bent towards western things, but i realized after studying physics for almost 12 years & comparing it with the vedic knowledge, why vedic people said, the vedic knowledge is the ultimate & it is true at all times.
I am aware of the recent scientific & technological developments as well as the vedas. I certainly know that my eyes are not closed.
Look at the quotes by greatest scientist of all times. This is what our ancestors also were telling "Sarve Jana Sukhino Bhavantu" & "Vasudaiva Kutumbakam".Do you think Einstein too closed his eyes?
And about different time, truth is not relative, it is absolute, truth will not change over time.
"A human being is a part of a whole, called by us 'universe', a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings as something separated from the rest... a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest to us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty."
-- Alebert Einstein
"The aim (of education) must be the training of independently acting and thinking individuals who, however, can see in the service to the community their highest life achievement."
-- Albert Einstein
"The life of the individual has meaning only insofar as it aids in making the life of every living thing nobler and more beautiful. Life is sacred, that is to say, it is the supreme value, to which all other values are subordinate."
-- Albert Einstein
The discussion can go and on, but don't consider it as an act of forcefully making you guys follow what i am saying.With an intention to uphold the culture I am involved in discussion.But atleast try to give credit to our ancestors & the vedic culture.
The truth will prevail in coming days. "Satya Meva Jayate"
Thanks Yespi, AKS, Halod, Netra & Narahari.
from:
http://thegoodsumaritan.blogspot.com/